Martin Bailey strikes again, with an interview with Dr Abbas al-Husseini, described as "the leading archaeologist in Iraq," who tells readers of the Art Newspaper that "looting is over". Bailey's new piece is a followup on an article earlier this summer that as he notes "generated considerable controversy" because it suggested that no post-2003 looting had occurred. Though the article spins Abbas' comments as corroborating this view, at least now the Art Newspaper has admitted that some looting went on after 2003. The position now is that, in Abbas' words, looting did occur post-2003, though it "declined very considerably in 2004 and has diminished yet more since then." Paul Barford, fellow SAFEcorner blogger, is right to see this as cognitive progress of sorts. Still, the overall message to readers is: relax, looting is no longer a problem, since "professional looting has ended." But there is reason to treat Dr Abbas' claims, as reported by Mr Bailey, with some skepticism....
To read more, go to The Punching Bag
Saturday, August 30, 2008
Is the Looting Really Over?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
6 comments:
I think it is worthwhile to be skeptical without checking sources. Though it does seem that the same is true in reverse. Has anyone at Safecorner been in direct contact with archaeologists in Iraq - or are just relying on sources.
Iraq is close to my own heart, both working there, and knowing the sites well... the destructon and looting has been heart breaking. and although I agree that everyone has an agenda, surely if it is true that looting is both lessening and in many cases (hopefully) stopped ... as seems to be the case on several sites that had been looted post 2003. I will be out in Jordan in a few days, and will ask people there - first hand accounts would be useful. Then we all might have cheering news.
What are your sources to suggest that Abbas is lying - is my main question as that is a serious allegation. I would not worry about people not being archaeolgoists, ther are many of those about - many archaeologists don't move far from their computers - and I am sure that does not hurt there ability to discuss field work.
As ever, I support the ideals, and any good news should be tempered with caution, but I also, like a good archaeologists, like to see evidence for the reverse.
Look forward to finding the reality.
First hand accounts are not irrelevant, but they all need to be taken with a grain of salt, because they are anecdotal, providing a view only of what the individual can see. Even the well-organized mission in June to eight sites provided only information about those sites, and there is good reason to believe those sites are not representative. (Dr Abbas, by the way, had a hand in selecting them to be visited.) Satellite photos, on the other hand, offer objective evidence on a larger, albeit still limited, scale. The larger the scale the better our view.
Where we see good news -- as on the eight sites -- we should of course be happy, but more importantly, we should note what accounts for the success in those cases and ask whether what worked there is being applied elsewhere in Iraq. The answer to that question, I believe, is generally not.
On the question of Abbas' qualifications: it may not necessarily be the case that one has to be an archaeologist by training to run a government agency staffed by archaeologists, but it is highly unusual for a non-archaeologist to be selected, and Abbas' appointment raised hackles in the Iraqi archaeological community. My point in mentioning it,however, was simply to try to make clear that Dr Abbas is not Iraq's top archaeologist, despite the Art Newspaper's declaration. That is simply an untruth, not on Dr Abbas' part, but on the part of the Art Newspaper.
I make no judgement about whether or not Dr Abbas is lying. He may well believe what he says, and may even base his judgement on some eyewitness accounts. But I do make a judgement about whether his claim is true, and -- based on satellite imagery -- I conclude that his claim that looting dwindled dramatically after 2004 and now is over is not correct.
Thank you for the clarification. I do feel that as you say... good news should be praised, and bad news raised. I note that the excellent report by Elizabeth Stone also has to limit the percentage of sites examined.. and so is also not fully inclusive.
I note that you "But I do make a judgement about whether his claim is true, and -- based on satellite imagery -- I conclude that his claim that looting dwindled dramatically after 2004 and now is over is not correct."
By not correct I take it you are saying that he is wrong, and based upon Sat images from no later than Spring 2006 (over 2 and a half years ago).
I am not being pedantic, but you do use careful words, such as 'I believe' 'albeit still limited'
'I make no judgement ' 'I conclude' etc.. this is wise, as it shows an uncertainty.. anecdotal evidence perhaps - but I like to trust my eyes. E. Stones work was indeed ground breaking, and evidence I could agree with wholeheartedly, however, what is happening now?
I do suspect that journalists play fast and loose with truth.. I have been misquoted so may times I lose count.
'..highly unusual for a non-archaeologist to be selected..' come to the UK.. you will find it is not that unusual... mores the pity.
There was another piece of guesswork in your report, which I did find a bit disturbing on second reading however:
"Originally trained as an historian, he is a Shia evangelist and supporter of Muqtada al Sadr's Mahdi movement. ....With the assassination this past week of Kamil Shia, the last secular high official at the Ministry of Culture, that ministry is now dominated by Islamists, brightening the job prospects for Dr Abbas."
I am not sure what an Shia'a Evangelist is.. or what is being suggested in the last paragraph.
I will talk with folk in the Jordanian Antiquities Dept about their thoughts.
ps I do think and agree that the article is agenda driven, but then, thats news for you.
Dr. Donny George, former President of Iraq's State Board of Antiquities sheds light on Dr Abbas al-Husseini here.
Fair enough... comments from the ex head of the Dept of Antiquities
What I did not see was any comment about Abbas being an Shia'a Evangelist - nor that assassination will help him return to power? Given that Donny George clearly says he was removed because he was making too many mistakes.. it does not follow that he will return to that position or indeed have his prospects brightened by the assasination of Kamil Shia-
apologies by the way.. as I realise that the quotes I am taking are mixed up with larry rothfields other blog.... which was in the original post
I just want to make the point that we all make assumptions, we all have agendas.. but we can't make leaps of faith.. if we are indeed archaeologists - many here are not archaeologists - but feel able to comment... which is fine of course, people can have opinions... it is best not to have opinions that tread a fine line.
As far as I can see, there was terrible looting, it 'seems' to be abating, if not stopped in some locations... I celebrate that, and will celebrate more as more places are protected. I will also oppose or try and stem or any other option with looting that still occurs... Good news should not make people feel that it is actually bad news in disguise. not without proof - just as the good news needs proof to.
When I go to Jordan, I will ask questions to the highest levels I can, and see if I can get unbiased reports (if there is such a thing).
Donny Georges comments are intersting indeed, and he has my respect as a real archaeologist an a brave man who stood up when others would have kept their heads down. He is someone I would trust...
A quote by Dr Northedge sums it up
"Dr George has worked tirelessly since the invasion in 2003, to protect and recover the antiquities then pillaged from the museum. I have the highest admiration for what he has done. He was and is the right person to interface with Western archaeologists, for the recovery of smuggled artefacts and getting help from Western institutions. I suspect that relations with his own government were by no means so warm. The problem is not that he is a Christian, or that he was a Ba’th party official. In my experience, he did not have a great interest in the Islamic heritage, and no doubt this communicated itself to superiors, whose main interest is indeed Islam. Frequently, archaeologists in Arab countries follow the role models provided by their Western counterparts. Dr George is one of them. Overwhelmingly, Western archaeologists in the Middle East concentrate on the ancient cultures—Egypt, Mesopotamia, Biblical archaeology, etc.—no doubt seen as the ancestors of their own culture............
.........In the long term, a concerted effort needs to be made to sensitise Muslim populations to their magnificent archaeological, architectural and artistic heritages."
SOetimes - just someteimes, the simple is ore complicated... ask not about the looting, but WHY looting was acceptable?
I talked.. I learned.. I was also in Syria - and talked and listened. all very interesting
Post a Comment